ok i know that the devs have allowed people to put the gun position more in the middle/center in 0.49, it is improved.. you can have a proper close combat now, but theres still allot of flaws...
because its still inaccurate.

example:

as you can see, the bullets have hit the wrong targets the bullets should be in the red cricle that ive draw, its its totally unrealistic and fake.




even if the gun position is more in the centered it is still not correct nor realistic,

look:

its still crooked, real soldiers/humans in real life are able to point the gun at 12 0 clock.

look:

see the 2 red stripes? well thats the correct position for the gun, not like the pic above"extremely crooked", and the crosshair target should be somewhere in the blue circle that ive drew,

P.S. the more centered gun position should be the default one.

so instead of:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5469/aim3tk2.jpg

it should be:
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/372/aim4nj9.jpg

The recoil repositions the gun after each shot, so unless you activated a no recoil cheat/hack, then those pictures are not accurate. Also, the line you drew isnt acurate either because you cannot be sure that the line is actually dead center at the same X Axis as the gun model is on.

The problem is that for the gun to be in that position, the butt of the gun would have to held against the center of your chest.

or you stand facing 90 degrees away from the enemy, and turn your head towards him with the gun flat against your chest facing the enemy. That is much harder to support.

I have heard this many many times out of you dragon, you always say a "Real soldier can do (put message here)". I don't see how you would know, all you do is play video games and maybe watch movies, soldiers do not have there gun up all the time, most of the time it is down with the butt still against your should, it allows the soldier or SWAT member to raise the gun quickly, and still land accurate shots. It's called the rest possition, the only time you should have your gun up, is if there is a target, this insures a lower rate of friendly fire should the team be spread out or traveling through large areas. This is a SWAT team in a desert area, notice the gun angle, It's down in the "Rest" Position.

To get the crosshair where you want it, you'd be using something called the iron sights

if we did what you wanted, they would go to waste, and there goes a big chunk of the work that was done.

also, I know from experience, where you point your weapon (unsighted) will often shift after a shot, or will be somewhere other than where you aimed.

BTW, the two pick you posted were of a guy using the sights. in-game they appear as such:
http://www.truecombat.us/gallery/albums/batch/2005-05-14-104509-dem_wip_b2.jpg

Dragon, do you have to completely break down every little bit of TC:E peice-by-peice?
TC:E is not a next-gen class title, it's a Total-Conversion of an aging engine based upon an even older engine.
You have to realize that realism can only be pushed so far on something around 5-6 years old.

Is this all you do in your free time?

Now now, I know the angry monkey wants to strangle the reptile right now but hold your horses.

Dragon what he was trying to say is the devs made the way like this because this is what they want their game to be. Ofcourse we are free to give suggestions, but there are limits to that liberty as we cannot push them to change every single aspect of the game. Think of it like, you got this free game but you didnt like what it has so you go to complain to the devteam and push them to include the idea's you think everyone wants. He saying to just ive your suggestions and let the community discuss them but stop pushing them, and by that what I mean is when the community doesnt like the idea, dont keep pushing it like it was life or death for you, the devs, the community, and the game.

If you really wanted a game with all those features, be like me, I am studying and planning to continue programming, 3d graphics design, and integrating both into game design. I have already started, and as I am learning I will slowly build up for something good. Maybe in a few years I can have something out and you all will be able to try it. (BTW I am looking for programmers who can help me, the planned tools will be Visual3d and Visual Studio by microsoft which can be aquired for free licenses - providing the product will be GPL - not necessarily open source - other programs would be 3dsMax8, 9 if I can get it, ZBrush2, and PhotoshopCS2.)

If the shot group was consistent each time the weapon fired without looking through the ironsights, people would start putting marks on their monitors so that they would never have to aim.
I think the devs did this on purpose to ensure that the individual would use sights for a more accurate shot group, and a more realistic appoach to how somebody would fire when not aiming.
If you were to fire any weapon without aiming in real life, you would most likely miss.
As for the SWAT team having their weapons "at the ready". It is a common way of training in the military. The weapon does sit in the shoulder to reduce recoil, and a quick raise of the weapon brings the weapon to the target with efficiency and accuracy.
Tearing the game apart for deficiencies is good I guess, but only a actual combat simulator, and not a game would be more realistic in the training. Besides, I use a keyboard and mouse, and do not want to have a weapon as a controller, while running on a treadmill.
You want realistic combat training, join the military.

It is a free game, have fun.

that also makes alot of sense.

if you cant point your hands at 12 o clock like the pictures above, than you must be a disabled person or you must have major cramps on your arms or something

Thats from Quake1/Doom1, HUD and thirdperson model arent connected and have nothing to do with each other. That hud is just a 2d image not 3d. I think you do not get the reality here, holding the gun center on your chest is not the right way to hold a gun. BTW there is an option to move the gun in a more centered position that is already available in game. It isnt fully centered but it helps hip shooting alot. Aslo that pic is for a hand gun which doesnt have as much recoil as an assualt rifle.

look:


i have a suggestion, why not get rid of the hip-aim gun position


and make this the new hip-aim gun position:

the hip-aim shoot be lift up more to the torso instead of the hip.

and make this the new iron-sight-aim gun position






look not 2d or 3d but real life:


hip-aim pointing towards 12 o clock:

doesnt matter wich position as long it aims at 12 o clock.

this should be the actual iron-sight view... really narrow between the iron sight:

again, that is called "using the sights"

the hip system is fine. changing the hip positon to the scope position will require doing more animations, wich would likely cause a biiig wait. TT + G6S do NOT want to have another 1.5 yr wait, as it was terrible publicity.